Boeing's China Problem

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  • Published: 10 September 2019
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    Animation by Josh Sherrington
    Sound by Graham Haerther (http://www.Haerther.net)
    Thumbnail by Simon Buckmaster

    Music by http://epidemicsound.com
    Select footage courtesy the AP Archive
    China Eastern 737 Takeoff Video Courtesy PDX Aviation

    References:
    [1] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/IS.AIR.PSGR?locations=CN
    [2] https://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Documents/TopTenPaxMarkets_graph.pdf
    [3] https://www.scmp.com/news/world/russia-central-asia/article/3024610/you-can-buy-russias-putin-pitches-su-57-stealth-jets
    [4] https://skift.com/2019/01/08/boeing-edges-airbus-to-stay-worlds-biggest-commercial-aircraft-manufacturer/
    [5] https://s2.q4cdn.com/661678649/files/doc_financials/annual/2019/Boeing-2018AR-Final.pdf
    [6] https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/04/boeing-stock-all-time-high-on-china-demand-production-acceleration.html
    [7] https://graphics.reuters.com/ETHIOPIA-AIRPLANE/010091341G7/index.html
    [8] https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/283437/what-routes-does-the-boeing-737-max-8-fly/
    [9] https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/news/en/2018/09/airbus--china-assembly-facility-marks-10-years-of-quality-manufa.html
    [10] https://www.wsj.com/articles/boeing-and-its-737-max-jets-have-a-china-problem-11554904340
    [11] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/13/business/china-boeing.html
    [12] https://www.apnews.com/88d5235d2107400680d8b0870d30d218
    [13] https://www.marketplace.org/2019/02/11/ceo-americas-biggest-exporter-manufacturing-america-doing-business/
    [14] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-25/airbus-is-said-to-seal-long-awaited-aircraft-order-from-china
    [15] https://www.mhi.com/news/story/190625.html
    [16] https://ukranews.com/en/news/612803-antonov-planning-to-resume-production-of-an-148-an-158-and-an-178-planes-in-2019
    [17] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/china-comac-919-new-plane-ryanair/

Comments • 2 881

  • wizbang68
    wizbang68  35 minutes back

    :15 odd way to say half a billion passengers, but then put the number of 500,000,000 (500 million) yes they could be considered equals but for those who aren't native english speakers it's confusing to state one number and then display a different wording visually... Although equivalent they aren't the same. 1/2 billion would have been better in the graphic or verbally state 500 million.

    • Thom Al
      Thom Al  1 hours back

      ho hum - sometimes I wish china went back behind whatever it was they opened to open up.

      • P Daniel
        P Daniel  2 hours back

        wENDOVER YOU SAY THERE IS NO COMPETITION FOR BOEING AND AIRBUS AND THEN 3 MINS LATER YOU SAY COMAC IS THREATENING BOEING

        • P Daniel
          P Daniel  2 hours back

          NO THE FAA IS STILL THE PRE-EMINENT REGULATOR. NOT CHINA

          • Dan Doris
            Dan Doris  4 hours back

            I'm curious what Boeing is doing to really fix the problem with the 737 Max. Seems they really should either go back to the original engines designed for the 737, or redesign the 737 to not need the MCAS (the device that caused the crashes). Be even more maddening then the self certification Boeing was allowed to certify their own planes, not sure what has been to address that problem.

            • 微博:环球商务客
              微博:环球商务客  4 hours back

              China has big markets but it belongs to its own aircrafts

              • tapsulinka
                tapsulinka  5 hours back

                There the biggest point is the Comac. It will be the main airplane to all of those companies who are partly owned by Chinese government or financed by Chinese state owned banks and those companies which are state owned and where China has big enough influence and then those companies who are just looking the cheapest price. It does mean that Comac planes will be the main plane at all Chinese companies and well as several Asian and African companies as well as Ryanair and similar low cost companies. Those will be bigger market than the rest of the companies so after 10-15 years Comac will be the biggest airplane manufacturer, unfortunately.

                • mike bob
                  mike bob  6 hours back

                  this chinese propoganda proudly brought to you by Winnie the Pooh

                  • MOStein
                    MOStein  7 hours back

                    No one is going to buy a fucking Chinese plane, are you serious?? China probably wouldn't even buy them lets be real 😂😂😂

                    • Jason F
                      Jason F  8 hours back

                      BOEING AND AIRBUS HAVE TAUGHT THE CHINESE TO BUILD AIRCRAFT! WHEN CHINA IS DONE LEARNING TO BUILD JETS, THEY WILL NATIONALIZE THE PLANTS!!! DUHH!!!

                      • monster FZ09
                        monster FZ09  8 hours back

                        Coming soon, Boeing: "Made in China"

                        • Can't B you
                          Can't B you  8 hours back

                          airbus planes are more comfortable anyway

                          • BADGUY 1
                            BADGUY 1  9 hours back

                            I did an avionics certification at Boeing in 1980. At that time Boeing had TWO competing engineering groups to develop new products. One group was called (the best I can remember) "Product Engineering". The other was called "Staff Engineering". The job of the "Product Engineering" group was to layout the "nuts and bolts" of the product installation (hardware design...wiring diagrams, etc). The job of the "Staff Engineering" group was to test the installation to see if it met all safety considerations. Of course there were many disputes between the two groups...arguing "nuts and bolts" considerations against "safety" ones. I had heard, the "Staff Engineering" groups were downsized and/or possibly eliminated, to "speed up" certification of new systems. If that is true (but I hope it's not), Boeing's move to save a little on development and engineering costs, cost them BIG BUCKS paying reparations for their 737 Max fiasco.... a payout that might have otherwise been avoided if they spent more time (and $'s) evaluating the operation of their new pitch control system...that caused those two crashes.

                            • BADGUY 1
                              BADGUY 1  9 hours back

                              I supported the assembly of McDonald Douglas, MD-80's, in Shanghai in the mid 1980's. So China is NOT new to western aircraft assembly and avionics. A Chinese aircraft factory, in Shenyang, also assembled vertical tail sections for Boeing aircraft in the early 1980's. Boeing helped build their own competition by allowing the Chinese to strong arm them into assisting the Chinese aircraft industry and giving up manufacturing secrets to them...in order to get aircraft orders.

                              • haydar abood
                                haydar abood  10 hours back

                                Why speeking fast

                                • J IJzer
                                  J IJzer  11 hours back

                                  So also made in China garbage in the sky

                                  • Epsensieg 18
                                    Epsensieg 18  5 hours back

                                    Actually China produces some world class products, its the buyers who demand cheap, the customers who demand cheap so that's what they get … cheap.

                                  • J IJzer
                                    J IJzer  10 hours back

                                    @Epsensieg 18 true but the quality got better and better but from China is is getting worse and worse

                                  • Epsensieg 18
                                    Epsensieg 18  10 hours back

                                    The same was said about Japan … japcrap.

                                • Nicholas Miller
                                  Nicholas Miller  12 hours back

                                  China will preference its own manufacturers when they reach proficiency. This is inevitable and understandable.

                                  Boeing doesn't need to be the world's largest airplane manufacturer to be successful or sustainable. The real challenge for Boeing will be whether the United States government and U.S. airlines are smart enough to prevent China from dumping airplanes on the U.S. market to undermine Boeing.

                                  • Epsensieg 18
                                    Epsensieg 18  10 hours back

                                    The US does the same, there are 30 models of cars banned in the US. The Toyota Landcruiser ute being one.

                                • Luke Reeves
                                  Luke Reeves  13 hours back

                                  2.2m morons sub this crap. Humanity is so screwed.

                                  • Peng Fu
                                    Peng Fu  15 hours back

                                    Sure.....Boeing is not State Owned, but it certainly has lobbyists galore in influencing the U.S. government to give them tons of favors, especially huge military contracts.

                                    Remember our Dear Mister Patrick Shannonhan used to work for Boeing, then took on the role of our "ACTING U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE?";

                                    Remember the U.S. government gave Boeing the rights to bypass the stringent inspection and certification needed by the Federal Aviation Administration;

                                    How about our Furer Trump suggested to Boeing to rebrand their Boeing 737 Max 8?

                                    One more....So China is stealing our IPs and braniac works in the past, present and the foreseeable future, why do we still keep sending the empty planes for China to install the internal components? So they could learn how to build their own planes and we get to call them thief in the future?

                                    Digressing a bit here....Why is Tesla building their first foreign factory, the Gigafactory 3 in Shanghai? Aren't we just allow these cheaters to rob more of our inventions?

                                    One last thing....Since we hate socialism and communism sooooo much, why are we wearing and using so much Made In China junks touched by those dirty Communist hands? Look, that iPhone in our saintly democratic freedom swollen hands was assembled by the evil doers' nasty hands, human right violators, dog eaters, a country without any freedoms, Black Mirror social credit system implementors, and Urgyurs lockers.

                                    We are so much better than China. They need us and we never need them, so let's move all the business and production lines out of that fucking evil country that pollutes the world (by making stuff for us). Humongous mistakes were made! But why the fuck are we not moving the jobs back home, but SEND THEM TO ANOTHER EVIL SNEAKY COMMUNIST COUNTRY, VIETNAM!!!???? Won't they fuck the poor little defenseless USA the same way China did?

                                    Anyone? Anyone?

                                    • Epsensieg 18
                                      Epsensieg 18  10 hours back

                                      The US is protectionist. China doesn't need the US so much, only 18% of its exports go to the US and Chinese exports only amount to 18% of its GDP. !20 million working Americans will never keep up with a billion harder working Chinese, that's the reality. The US needs to reinvent itself, it likely will one day when it finishes its war agender.

                                  • tskjesusfreak
                                    tskjesusfreak  15 hours back

                                    Skillshare Skillshare and PoopShare

                                    • mnguyea
                                      mnguyea  15 hours back

                                      China will buy its own made planes just as the Russians do for their smaller fleet. I just don't see them competing in this space as no one is gong to trust getting on a plane "Made in China.' They maybe good for electronics and consumer goods but I'm not trusting my life to them at 35k in the air.

                                      • Jack Tellerson
                                        Jack Tellerson  16 hours back

                                        How can you compete with state sponsored businesses. Abandon the Chinese market.

                                        • BSPBuilder
                                          BSPBuilder  2 hours back

                                          As if Boeing is not fed by state sponsorship........

                                      • Ross
                                        Ross  16 hours back

                                        I think it's going to be a long time before any major Airline order's the Comac. I think they will wan't to see it in service for a few years to see how it copes first. Personally I think the best route for Chinese Airlines is to order planes like the A220, A320neo, A321neo.. as they are proven to be reliable and safe. Also the 3 major Chinese Airlines have A350's in their fleet that have had no problems what so ever so it's a no brainer.

                                        • Mark W
                                          Mark W  16 hours back

                                          Standard Chinese practice... Force a Boeing to partner with a Chinese company to access the market... Steal the plans and make copies.

                                          • Epsensieg 18
                                            Epsensieg 18  10 hours back

                                            That's how the history of the world works.

                                        • Hringhorne Stularsson
                                          Hringhorne Stularsson  16 hours back

                                          I do NOT want to learn new things, everything that has worked for hundreds of years, will work for hundreds of years even in the future!!! ;)

                                          • Regan Orr
                                            Regan Orr  17 hours back

                                            If you do business in Red China, ChiComs will STEAL your Intellectual Property! You'll Go Broke!

                                            • Regan Orr
                                              Regan Orr  17 hours back

                                              Instead of Fixing the Nose Thrust Upward Problem, Boeing made Computer Adjustment! Genius!

                                              • Kristen Sorensen
                                                Kristen Sorensen  17 hours back

                                                Boeing was just stupid not growing a twin jet 727 instead of the lousy cheep 737. Just my view. Funny China is building its own - NOT!

                                                • Kristen Sorensen
                                                  Kristen Sorensen  17 hours back

                                                  So Boeing burned China worse than anyone how totally stupid! Oh yeah thanks FAA!

                                                  • Rob Badlands
                                                    Rob Badlands  18 hours back

                                                    maybe its not "big enuff" for your show, but as a WAstate born'raised i wanna know. how is a state, currently consider one of the bluest/greenest states. with the votes on legistlation and representation to evidence it. the home of the most dominant, monopolistic, human-neglecting-profit-maximizing megacorps? boeing, microsoft, amazon. in my lifetime, there have been 2 "richest people in the world". both hail from the evergreen state. which is home of evergreen college. which has the viral video of some kids going full-retard on some profs.

                                                    • Glauro Priori Campello
                                                      Glauro Priori Campello  18 hours back

                                                      Don't you forget EMBRAER, a Brazilian Aircraft Industry, now a partnership with Boeing, and presently with office in Beijing?

                                                      • Abhay Gupta
                                                        Abhay Gupta  18 hours back

                                                        Bloody Chinese all low quality product manufacturer huh

                                                        • Epsensieg 18
                                                          Epsensieg 18  10 hours back

                                                          People said that about Japan once.

                                                      • Ming Fang
                                                        Ming Fang  21 hours back

                                                        The challenge of Boeing is quality not opportunity.

                                                        • Adolf Galand
                                                          Adolf Galand  21 hours back

                                                          Let's start a trade war, that'll solve Boeings problems.

                                                          • Roger Froud
                                                            Roger Froud  21 hours back

                                                            The biggest long term issue is definitely that China will eventually make their own aircraft, just like they've made everything else. You can bet they're stealing the IP for these and are reverse engineering what they can't steal. Once they're starting making their own, the rest of the world can kiss goodbye to selling them any aircraft.

                                                            • Epsensieg 18
                                                              Epsensieg 18  10 hours back

                                                              Chinese are very savvy at business.

                                                          • Steve P
                                                            Steve P  21 hours back

                                                            China is building it's very own airliner.
                                                            With technology stolen from Western Companies.
                                                            In the years prior to the institution of "controls" on technology , China robbed us blind.

                                                            • The Philosopher of Culture

                                                              We all know that American institutions tend to be compromised by the companies that they are supposed to oversee. If the financial interests are large enough and the officials are of low morale, which they at some point of time will be if only by chance, all rules and laws are discarded. This happens to all societies based on money as its principal guiding principle, including South Korea and Japan. The Boeing scandal is just one of many. It started in public awareness with the Three Mile Island nuclear power plant scandal in 1979. It is a flaw of capitalism.

                                                              • M B
                                                                M B  22 hours back

                                                                I think you mean a trio, not a trifecta

                                                                • 閻宇
                                                                  閻宇  23 hours back

                                                                  Look how Macron's smiling. He must be grateful to DT.

                                                                  • anthony wong
                                                                    anthony wong  23 hours back

                                                                    When you are flying in a MAX how many of you have thoughts of will this crash?

                                                                    • DD
                                                                      DD  23 hours back

                                                                      Few things are "always" good. COMPETITION is one of those things that is ALWAYS GOOD. No exceptions.

                                                                      • Zeus Knobblewacker
                                                                        Zeus Knobblewacker  23 hours back

                                                                        I see you didn’t include Taiwan on your map of China...

                                                                        Good.

                                                                        🇹🇼 🇹🇼🇹🇼

                                                                        • Just4Kixs
                                                                          Just4Kixs  24 hours back

                                                                          And thus begins the wane of the USA as the leading nation of the world. That was the past century.
                                                                          It's China's turn this century.

                                                                          • Deren Bong
                                                                            Deren Bong  1 days back

                                                                            allies? China has no frens, China colonizes countries through debt traps,

                                                                            • BUrton BinGer
                                                                              BUrton BinGer  1 days back

                                                                              When folks used "propped up" by the defence industry, it becomes unclear what the industry does. Defence, isn't a topic for discussion when soldiers are dying only when we feel safe. President Eisenhower said "beware" the defence industrial complex, you know the one that gave him his win WW2, it's not unheard of bad contracts being pushed through, on one hand but with a 700 billion annual bill money is flowing faster than can be spotted, until it's too late. The government does not "prop-up" Boeing or any other single company it is just as bad with all contractors, history mostly discovers the screwups but in the meantime, we sleep well and are military has enough bullets. So let's not follow an anxious moment for an old General, work on the value of defence, sleep well and prosper.

                                                                              • Deren Bong
                                                                                Deren Bong  1 days back

                                                                                you're a very naive commentator, u seriously believe everything that China says?

                                                                                • Brad Wolf
                                                                                  Brad Wolf  1 days back

                                                                                  China has a much stronger 強 position with boeung 寶行。- 郭天元

                                                                                  • Sayan guria
                                                                                    Sayan guria  1 days back

                                                                                    I generally dislike communists but china took the right decision by grounding MAX. FAA's corrupted behaviour was endangering lives of passenger around world.

                                                                                    • Jlassi Jlali
                                                                                      Jlassi Jlali  1 days back

                                                                                      it is not FAA corrupted it is more about the Goverment! he with years give them less and less Money ... they really killing it sslowly! ..and this all because Boeing corrupttion ..